Former Royal Mail chief exec says he ‘was not aware’ group’s lawyers were prosecuting post office operators – UK politics live | Politics


Former Royal Mail chief exec Crozier says ‘I was not aware’ Royal Mail lawyers were prosecuting Post Office subpostmasters

Former chief executive of the Royal Mail Group Adam Crozier said he was not aware that lawyers within the group conducted prosecutions at the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry.

At the time Royal Mail owned the Post Office, and the Post Office used the Royal Mail’s legal department.

In his witness statement Crozier said:

I do not recall any involvement in or knowledge of the oversight of the investigations and prosecutions brought by Post Office Ltd against subpostmasters, either for theft, fraud and false accounting for alleged shortfalls in branch accounts for the recovery of such alleged shortfalls through the use of civil proceedings.

Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked: “Were you not aware that in fact there was no Post Office legal team – it had no separate legal in-house function and that civil and criminal proceedings were brought by lawyers within the Royal Mail Group legal team?”

Crozier replied: “I was not, no.”

Beer continued: “So lawyers from within the group gave advice on prosecutions, they made decisions about prosecutions and within prosecutions, and they conducted the proceedings, not any Post Office lawyers, you didn’t know that?”

Crozier replied: “I was not aware of that, no.”

The BBC has previously reported that Crozier was paid £9.7m in salary and bonuses in his time at Royal Mail. 400 convictions using Horizon data took place while he was in charge of Royal Mail.

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Key events

Adam Crozier has been asked to concur that the Horizon IT system was a business critical system for the Post Office, and hence for the broader Royal Mail group that he headed.

He is asked by Jason Beer KC “What steps did the main board take in your seven years to ensure that it was running reliably? Were you aware of any internal audit conducting any review or investigation into the use, reliability and accuracy of the data that Horizon produced.”

“I genuinely can’t remember,” Crozier says.

There will now be a ten minute break. I will take one too.

My colleague Daniel Boffey has written this piece summing up the testimony this morning at the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry from Alan Cook.

Adam Crozier has just told the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry that he would find it “surprising” that Post Office managing director Alan Cook did not know the company had a prosecution function until late in his tenure.

Crozier says Cook always gave the impression he was on top of his brief. He says Cook never gave the impression of being anything other than in control of that brief.

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Former chief executive of the Royal Mail Group Adam Crozier has said he did not have a “developed understanding” of the way in which Royal Mail carried out prosecutions.

Asked by Jason Beer KC “Is the truth of the matter that in your position you did not have a developed understanding of the extent to which Royal Mail prosecuted or the way in which things were or were not carried into effect?”

Crozier responded “I am not a lawyer. I would not claim it is my area of expertise.”

During Crozier’s time at the helm of the Royal Mail, its legal team, acting as a central team on behalf of the separate Post Office corporate entity, prosecuted hundreds of subpostmasters using Horizon IT data.

Former Royal Mail chief exec Crozier says ‘I was not aware’ Royal Mail lawyers were prosecuting Post Office subpostmasters

Former chief executive of the Royal Mail Group Adam Crozier said he was not aware that lawyers within the group conducted prosecutions at the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry.

At the time Royal Mail owned the Post Office, and the Post Office used the Royal Mail’s legal department.

In his witness statement Crozier said:

I do not recall any involvement in or knowledge of the oversight of the investigations and prosecutions brought by Post Office Ltd against subpostmasters, either for theft, fraud and false accounting for alleged shortfalls in branch accounts for the recovery of such alleged shortfalls through the use of civil proceedings.

Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked: “Were you not aware that in fact there was no Post Office legal team – it had no separate legal in-house function and that civil and criminal proceedings were brought by lawyers within the Royal Mail Group legal team?”

Crozier replied: “I was not, no.”

Beer continued: “So lawyers from within the group gave advice on prosecutions, they made decisions about prosecutions and within prosecutions, and they conducted the proceedings, not any Post Office lawyers, you didn’t know that?”

Crozier replied: “I was not aware of that, no.”

The BBC has previously reported that Crozier was paid £9.7m in salary and bonuses in his time at Royal Mail. 400 convictions using Horizon data took place while he was in charge of Royal Mail.

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Adam Crozier has just said he was not aware that the Post Office did not have its own lawyers and it that it using the central legal function of the Royal Mail group. Crozier headed Royal Mail when it owned the Post Office between 2003 and 2010.

It should be noted that earlier Alan Cook was essentially saying on the Post Office side of things, because they were using the Royal Mail legal function, they didn’t have full oversight of it.

Keir Starmer has been talking to broadcasters about the UK’s nuclear deterrent, saying it is “the single most important part of our armoury to protect our country”.

During a visit to Barrow-in-Furness, PA Media reports he told broadcasters:

The commitment I’ve made here today is really important, I think I’m the first Labour leader to come here to the shipyard here, to see the building of the submarines for 30 years and to make a very important generational commitment which is to the Dreadnought submarines, to the continuous at-sea deterrent and to the upgrades that are needed over time and of course there’s AUKUS in there as well so this is a generational commitment.

The only way to have a safer world is to have an effective deterrent. The nuclear deterrent has been effective now for decades. It’s the single most important part of our armoury to protect our country, and that’s why I’m so committed to it.

And it’s important that we see this as a long term project because not only do we need the deterrence today, but we need … continued deterrence as we go forward.

Labour party leader Keir Starmer talking to workers while looking at metalwork during a campaign visit to BAE Systems in Barrow-in-Furness. Photograph: Danny Lawson/PA

Adam Crozier has just confirmed that in his seven year period at Royal Mail (2003-2010) he is not aware of any external audit of either the Post Office’s IT and Horizon systems or an external audit of the prosecution processes being undertaken by the Post Office. He is being reminded that company directors have a legal obligation for accounts to be accurate.

Incidentally the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry usually runs from 10am to 3pm on a Friday when sitting, but because there was a lot to go through today, chair Wyn Williams asked for an earlier start at 9.30am today. The plan is apparently for this session to run until 3.45pm, but they may have to include an extra break for the benefit of the transcribers at the hearing.

The Post Office Horizon IT inquiry is restarting, with Adam Crozier being questioned by Jason Beer KC. You can watch it here. I will bring you the key lines that emerge …

Post Office Horizon IT inquiry: : Adam Crozier and Alan Cook testify – watch live

Rajeev Syal

Rajeev Syal

Rajeev Syal is the Guardian’s home affairs editor

Rishi Sunak’s government has discussed the possibility of using a UK-based airline to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda, industry sources have confirmed.

AirTanker, a charter airline with Ministry of Defence and RAF contracts, is understood to have been involved in talks about flying people 4,000 miles to Kigali.

The disclosure comes as No 10 prepares for the latest Rwanda bill to return to parliament on Monday in its attempt to deter asylum seekers from travelling across the Channel in small boats.

Government insiders remain confident that the bill will pass by the end of April after another round of parliamentary ping pong between the House of Commons and the House of Lords, and that flights will take off in the spring.

Asylum seekers facing deportation, many of whom are from Iran, Iraq and Syria, are poised to launch legal action against the law.

Read more of Rajeev Syal’s report here: UK government in talks with charter airline over Rwanda deportation flights



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